today we take the market back and ban speculators and raiders out of our lives forever. We are introducing a new tool, Pricing Consistency.
Take a look at any card on mtggoldfish.com: compared to paper magic (right, blue line), mtgo prices (left, red line) go up and down suddenly in short amounts of time. In the example Ashiok crossed the value of 5.5 tixs 27 times in a month. This happens because the MTGO Market is lively and very efficient. Without any protection, you could easily buy Ashiok at its highest price and sell it at the lowest, all the opposite you want to do. You can price each card manually via PersonalPrices.txt, but this is really time consuming and simply you cannot do for every card.
The goal of the Price Consistency tool is to decrease the amount of sudden spikes of cards and increase the overall stability of the market. As you see in the first graph the red line represents the current market, the blue represents the market of the future. Price Consistency will help increase your overall profit.So how does it work? There are two sides of the table, the buy price consistency and the sell price consistency.
For each card, your bots will automatically adjust the selling price to minimize your loss for market fluctuations. For example, if you buy a card for 10 tix and the market drops in value so that you are now selling it for 9 tixs, you will lose 1 tix if you do not have selling protection.
The % dropdown menus defines the force of the price adjustments. You can have a time decay so that a card bought long time ago won't affect the selling price too much.
100% means: if necessary, calculate the new price to save you 100% of the loss. Using the example above, this will result in a selling price of 10 tixs.
80% means: if necessary, calculate the new price to save you 80% of the loss. Using the example above, this will result in a selling price of 9.8 tixs.
0% means: no protection, simply use the current selling price. Using the example above, this will result in a selling price of 9 tixs.
You have the option to override Personal prices. Please note that if your protection percentage is set too high for too long you risk not selling the card, and therefore not re-buying it at the market value. This may result in a lower than normal inventory rotation and an overall loss in profits. Remember that some cards fall in price and if you don't keep up with the market you may be holding onto the card for too long.
Buy price consistency:
The % dropdown menus defines the force of the price adjustments. You can have a time decay so that a card sold long time ago won't affect the buying price too much.
100% means: if necessary, calculate the new price to save you 100% of the loss. Using the example above, this will result in a buying price of 10 tixs.
80% means: if necessary, calculate the new price to save you 80% of the loss. Using the example above, this will result in a buying price of 10.2 tixs.
0% means:; no protection, simply use the current buying price. Using the example above, this will result in a buying price of 11 tixs.
Happy botting!
Jason - Teamstoge
This is actually horrible. Straight up horrible.
ReplyDelete"MTGO is an efficient market"
"here is an inefficient tool to help you not lose money"
People that use this will see a SIGNIFICANT reduction in their total number of sales, which leads to less money for them (and in turn, profits) and also less money for you guys. For what, peace of mind that they can set it to where they won't lose money, and to TRY and fend off speculators (good luck with that)? Congrats, enjoy not making anything either!
Good luck with this garbage.
Like any option, this is toggable. You are not forced to use it. If you don't like, simply don't activate it.
DeleteBut you could have spent the time working on something that provides actual value to your users, instead you spent that time catering and pandering to the fools who will never be successful.
DeleteOk, so its toggable. Great. Except that you now give the option FOR YOUR CUSTOMERS TO ACTUALLY DO WORSE. This feature is very very bad for sales volume. Outright horrible. You will promote it, explain that it is great (stops speculators! except pro tip, it doesnt) and lead people to make the switch when it puts them much worse off.
DeleteJust wait until this rolls out (if it hasnt already) and you will see what I mean when your fee income declines as people start to make the switch.
Not to mention that USER above me makes a good point. Could have spent your investment making a much better product than one that hinders sales performance.
Just look at it like this. If I bought a card for 10 tix, and the price drops to 9 tix, why in the world would I keep it at anything above 9 tix? If the other major bot chains (cardbot, traders, nova, etc), not to mention the library bots that dont opt into this, are all at 9 tix, where are the people going to buy from? Then what if that card just keeps declining in price? Then what? Now I lost out on the opportunity to sell it for 9 tix, thus Im now losing even MORE money! Or maybe my price is still set at 9.8 tix from this program, and still never actually selling it.
DeleteSee what I'm getting at here? If the MTGO market is already very efficient, and these "sudden price swings" (dont know if I count a card jumping between 5 and 6 tix weekly sudden price swings) are part of this extreme efficiency, why are you trying to work around that and essentially promote inefficiency? Lets be real, if you buy Ashiok at its highest price, its going to delcine with or without this program. I.E. this program is a big waste of your company's time and investment, wont actually "fix" what its supposed to, and lead to those that opt in screwed as prices continue to go up or down (beacuse THE MTGO MARKET IS VERY EFFICIENT).
Maybe after 1-2 weeks price rise to 12 tix and u make profit instead of loss!
DeleteU stop losing tickets thanks speculator that buy specific cards from ur bots and sell it to u back 1 week later when price increased about 20%.
i see only positive things about this feature for ppl who dont have time modify price 12 hours per day because they have real job or family.
I like it i lose like 30-40% of my profit via speculators
ReplyDeleteSome of us do set all of our prices manually it isn't that hard or time consuming. For us this is worthless, and is time that could have been spent working on something actually useful. You are insisting on pandering to the lowest common denominator of users and it is going to cost you all of your business among people with a clue on how to actually run a business... The fact that you cant even allow people to post legit criticism without censoring it shows you have no interest in most of your own users, I am not just going to look for new bot software today I am going to switch this is beyond ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteI have been a Bot owner for a very long time. This comment is so ridiculous.. If you were a real customer of MLBot you couldnt even say that knowing how much time and effort has been spent trying to help you. Nice try, but your obviously a competitor just throwing slander around. Get out of the forums and stop making stuff up. Thanks for playing the game!
Delete@A MTGO USER: thanks for trolling us
ReplyDelete@A MTGO USER: I would like to know your real bot name
ReplyDelete@A MTGO USER: if you are really a botter.........
ReplyDeleteits means filters will switch off on wiki? I feel the voulme goes down because the filters, also hard to race with goatbots if wiki filters out the better prices (at least in buying prices)
ReplyDelete@Tamas: exactly! On Sunday filters will be lowered. Better for bots, better for customers, it's a win-win
ReplyDeleteSo wait, can you explain this filters thing a bit more? Are you actually filtering out bots from the wiki if their prices are too high or low?
DeleteNot sure how this helps the race to the bottom (what I assume you implemented filters for) as the guys who are monopolizing wikiprice with licenses are not going to use this nonsense.
ReplyDeletecan't speak in Albert's name but i think that what mtgolibrary tried to do here,or at least that ended happening anyway,was to set wikifilters at the same time this tool was being developed in order to create this so called consistency(others would call it price fixing)..over time and with bots trading at "allowed" values i'm sure this "consistency" would be there...the big issue here,shaninagans aside,is that with Jou release,ppl getting rid of rtr block cards,wikiprice filtering,plus this,with the current lack of trades already going on and prices falling like crazy,adding the consistency tool will end up being consistent alright but on to an economy that by being regulated by this point on won't get card to rise up as much..as often...etc..etc..good for the final consumer i guess...1 thing aside..i keep reading about this raider vs trader vs botter vs speculator...and then i read things like "someone is taking 30/40% my profite...." well..you're still profiting right?like capital markets when you introduce excesse regulation liquidity will wear off and so will the interest on ppl dealing with those markets,bots can't live without traders and traders can't live without bots..i don't know how many fellow bot owners are aware that a huge slice of their so called "clients" are basically just traders,in wich without them many of us would end up days in a row without performing a single trade..at some point in time and space when some random trader sold a playset to us those cards might spike over the evening or whatever,and in those ocasions i don't see anyone complaining about "raiders" because hey...it was probably just another costumer..there's more bots out there then ppl willing to buy cards just for the sake of playing the game...that said..whoever wants to use it,uses it,those who don't,don't...i personally won't use..i prefer to gain less and have more trades then the other way around.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I would like to say that the many recent improvements to mtgolibrary software and the wikiprice website have been hugely beneficial to all license holders. I am very pleased that Albert is committed to the difficult challenge of constant improvement, especially in the face of an unknown future client. The many features that allow for almost intervention-free bot-ing have saved me a lot of time over the years. Personally, this new feature is not useful to me, as I don't mind losing money on some trades as long as I continue to trade frequently on a spread.
ReplyDeleteI can understand a weak reception, but I see no reason for the venomous response from Nick Becvar or MTGO USER.
This feature was a miss for me, but I look forward to any new improvements made by Albert.
It's because they are (the same person and) competitors. If I say A, they say B. If I say B, they say A.
DeleteUh do you actually know me? I am in no way affiliated with a bot, own a bot, or have a desire to own a bot. I do however, understand the MTGO market, and realize that this tool is garbage for your company and the users of your product. Also, now that I know you guys have been filtering prices off the wiki (which you have yet to respond to, or any of my other posts for that matter) I realize your business practices are complete scum, and that filtering crap also hurts profits of your company and your customers.
DeleteNick, You have no idea what you are talking about. These filters are put in place for the safety of the community from predators(perhaps this pertains to you) and the reason you dislike the filters is because you cant find the guys who made a mistake due to Alberts Thoughtfulness! Here is one thing you are right on though. MTGO market is very well managed, with that said, certain variables come into play by people who like to manipulate the market. You might have seen Pumping Cards and Dumping Cards? Perhaps you have done this, no accusations just observations of possible reasons why you are such a spiteful person! This sort of activity happens all the time. In this scenario people will not be able to manipulate Wiki the way they would the Classifieds/Larger Chains Algorithms. Also just because you dont like the filters, doesnt mean your not in the minority of opinions on this topic. I for one love the filters.. its keeps things honest and protects us from calculation errors sudden spikes and drops of cards coupled with the buyers protection this makes the system basically mistake proof, scam proof, and attack on stores proof! Please feel free to take your hate elsewhere, your not a botter yet your posting in a ML forum. Please, take this hidden agenda you have and post it in notepad and save it for yourself to read later, because no one here wants to hear it.
DeleteThis tool stops the speculators that wipe a card off all bots for 4-6tix, wait 2-3 days for the prices to "update" to 8tix so they can unload it back to the bots for 7tix+.
ReplyDeleteThere are 3 people that lose out of this and 2 that win.
Losers : The speculator; The Bot Raider; Albert himself (Less trades, less fess, i take my hat off for him, cutting his own profits for the sake of a better and balanced market).
Winners: Bot owners; Players (wont see all bots wipped out of a single card due to speculating, etc)
End of.
Huh... Well, I can certainly say that I don't appreciate the sentiment expressed in this article. I buy cards because I play with them, but if a card that have spikes I'll sell it back. If you consider me the enemy because of it, then I'll take my apparently unwanted business elsewhere.
ReplyDeletewell if you buy a card for 10 tix off a bot and you dont want it next day...im sure you wouldnt also like to see every bot buying it for 5tix aswell? This slows down the spikes both ways, and on the reality, "everyday players" are the ones that buy when the card is at its highest and sell back to bots when its less popular and its at is lowest.
ReplyDelete"For example, if you buy a card for 10 tix and the market drops in value so that you are now selling it for 9 tixs, you will lose 1 tix if you do not have selling protection."
ReplyDeleteThis is flat out wrong. If the real market price on a card you paid 10 tickets for has fallen to 9 tickets, you have already lost 1 ticket, full stop.
Telling the bot to try and keep selling it for 10 tickets anyway and hope you find a sucker does not seem like a good way to keep cards moving.
Am I wrong, or is this literally programming the sunk cost fallacy in to the bot as a toggle option?
You miss a point here. Market goes up and down. Today is 9 tickets, tomorrow can be 11. It just says "wait one more day before underselling for 9". Look at mtggoldfish graphs.
DeleteIf, after months, the items is still 9 tickets => you simply lost the market value game, and here there is nothing you can do.
If you don't understand the opportunity cost of holding a card for months in the hope that it might go up, I'm not sure what more I can do to explain it to you.
DeleteThis is a business decision, it's up to you. If you want, you can wait up to one month. If you don't want, you don't wait.
DeleteYour choice.
What is this "filter" business. I've been using mtgowikiprice to pick up cards I need for decks. But now you are telling me that it doesn't show a bot's price if this guy Albert (whoever he is) thinks it is too low? That is ludicrous. I won't be using wikiprice again...lol I just noticed that i says "official price" what a scam, trying to present doctored data to your market is not a good business practice. I say good day!
ReplyDeleteFilters are put in place to prevent FALSE prices from being posted. The prices that are Ludicrous are removed for the safety of the entire systems integrity. if the Wiki posts bad prices the same effect can be achieved, lack of faith in the system=>less users=>system failure. MLBot and wiki are trying to keep the system honest, nothing more nothing less. If the average buy price of the top 4 stores is 10 tix and some guy posts 35 tix, and that is allowed to stay up, then how are people suppose to know what is real and what is not. With no filters in place how can anyone trust any number.. This system gives a more reliable and stable market projection. In most cases someones prices are off due to a mistake on the botter himself/herself. This is also a way to protect a mistake from happening and killing a store in less than a hour. This shows that MLBot is looking out for everyone's best interests. The only people that complain about this are the people looking to ruin a store based on a mistake. So in that scenario, we succeeded in not allowing anyone to target and exploit a simple mistake. The prices you see are on even level with 99% of all top competitors, so I really do not know why you are complaining. If your goal is to exploit someone then you came to the wrong place.
DeleteIt's fine and dandy that you filter out the high prices, but why on earth do you filter out the LOW prices. You are keeping prices artificially inflated, especially for high end foils. There is simply not enough supply to justify that one bot is "Ludicrous" and another isn't. If anything, the high price is probably "ludicrous" and the low price is much more reasonable.
DeleteAs for the low end prices on the other 99% of the cards, I bet the bots that sell them still makes a hefty profit since they bought them from some unsuspecting player for a microscopic fraction of the actual fair market value... you know, those bots that pay $0.025 for every single mythic regardless of market value. Why don't you fix those prices? Those are the bots that are doing a disservice to MTGOLibrary and the MTGO players! No, instead you try to set the market price instead of the market itself.
My apologies Cory, I didn't intend for the post above to be directed at you. I originally thought you were associated with MTGOLibrary, but I now understand that you are just a bot owner.
DeleteNo worries Scott, I Just want people to understand why these filters are put in place...They are there for the "Whole System". I am sure if you have an idea, on how to streamline this or perhaps add to the logic to keep the community as a whole safe, Then I Know Albert would want to hear it and any other ideas you feel could improve the system as a whole. Thats the great thing about Albert, the man works hard for each and everyone of us. Even though hes a business owner, Albert actually cares for people, hes taken time out of busy day to help me with anything I have emailed him with. Hes prompt and excellent at what he does. So when we bring up problems, we should post a solution to go with our problem, and they will take a look at it and try to adjust things to remove the problem. Thank you Scott for the apology again, and I hope you have a great day!
DeleteKeep up the great work, Albert! Many of us find this feature extremely useful
ReplyDeleteHey Dan, How you doing. Thanks for the Shout Out, Jason sent me the link, Pancakes for the people:)
Delete